Comments on epistolae obscurorum virorum: 'Why are so many Lutheran pastors becoming Roman C...

Hi Fraser, I'm a friend of Tom Pietsch, he recomme...

2009-06-08T09:43:10.260+10:00

Hi Fraser,
I'm a friend of Tom Pietsch, he recommended your blog.As a former Catholic I appreciated the sensitivity of your post.
I consider myself reformed Catholic. As a seminarian, I don't always agree with the LCA or the lecturers, but privately I don't have too. Publicly there is of course an obedience to the church and those that have oversight over me. I feel that Catholicism and Lutheranism are growing closer together, and I look forward to the day when we are in complete fellowship. Hope springs eternal.
Blessings
Harry Pickett

"That's putting it fairly strongly" I need to apo...

2009-06-07T17:11:34.006+10:00

"That's putting it fairly strongly"

I need to apologise for putting it TOO strongly. In attempting to show why Lutheran pastor converts to the Catholic Church are not morally bound by their Lutheran ordination vows, I made a comparison that was indeed "too strong".

My apologies. I did not intend to cast scorn or derision upon the Lutheran Office of the Holy Ministry, which indeed exists for the service of the Gospel and is, for that reason, greatly efficacious to the salvation of many.

The aim of your article seems to be to provide Lut...

2009-06-04T12:04:19.220+10:00

The aim of your article seems to be to provide Lutherans with some reasons to understand and respect the decision of a former minister becoming Catholic. In other words, I think you aim to assist Lutherans to 'explain their actions in the kindest possible way'.

As a former minister who suffered from missunderstanding and a certain amount of hurtful 'interpretation' of my move to Catholicism, I thank you for this effort.

As I have commented on my own blog, I don't think you deal with the key reason why the men are converting, but you DO offer reasons which the average Lutheran could understand, respect and yet not be too rattled in ther own faith journey in doing so.

People need to be ready to be rattled in this way so it would be irresponsible to force such a challenge to the faith of people in various stages of their faith journey.

While I may sound harsh in my reflections elsewhere, I am genuinely grateful for your efforts which seek to uphold the eighth commandment for Lutherans and new Catholics alike.

Peace in Christ

While Fraser touches upon it in his article, I wou...

2009-06-03T17:37:13.128+10:00

While Fraser touches upon it in his article, I would add that the "call to communion" was for me particularly strong. As Fraser describes it, a Church whose "bishops, unified throughout the world with each other, and in communion with the bishop of Rome (the Pope), call[s] others into fellowship with them" is hard to resist. I would add that it is not just the present unity and communion of the Church that for me was the clinching factor, but the historical continuity of this communuion with Christ and the apostles that finally won the day.

As for the suggestion that joining the Catholic Church would only be a valid option "IF the pastor was able to continue in his Called role in his new church", that is presuming the validity of the Lutheran Church to issue such a call (ie. to ordain priests) in the first place. This is disputed by the Catholic Church. A Lutheran pastor who becomes Catholic does so in part because he recognises the invalidity of his own ordination on the basis that he comes to recognise that the Lutheran Church has no authority to confer holy orders. As a result, he comes to see precisely that he is exercising a ministry TO WHICH HE HAS NOT BEEN CALLED by Christ. If you wish to use the marriage comparison, it is as if a man has discovered that he has been living in an invalidly contracted marriage - which is hence no marriage at all, but a form of adultery or fornication. That's putting it fairly strongly, but so is the suggestion that his motives are selfishness or a lack of committment to duty.

For those more interested in my actual journey, I refer you to my conversion retro-blog (which one day I will get around to completing) Year of Grace.

Hi, Fraser, read your article in that excellent pu...

2009-06-02T15:59:28.541+10:00

Hi, Fraser,
read your article in that excellent publication. Thanks for providing some insights into an issue which can be confronting and disturbing for people affected.
I can see how Point 3 could apply...IF the pastor was able to continue in his Called role in his new church. As this is clearly not possible, it appears prime face to be a very self-centered, if not necessarity selfish course of action.
It certainly raises the qn of Vows.
Does one similarly walk away from a marriage if not everything is going well?
Still, it is hard to demand that someone act against their concience.
However, there seems to be (as you might posit) a rather large elephant in the vestry.

It wouldn't seem appropriate to raise it in a public forum, however.
When are you next coming to Town? !

regards.